Dr. Terry Jones - Apostolic Way - Overcoming Adversity

Dr. Terry Jones answers your questions about overcoming adversity the apostolic way. Interview By Jennifer LeClaire

When God called Dr. Terry Jones to Germany, the Missouri native did not speak a word of German. But in obedience to a prophetic word - "Go to Germany. Go and build My church." - Jones took his wife and three children half way around the world to a foreign land in search of God's will for his life and for the European nation.

As Jones sat praying in front of the Cologne Cathedral, a masterpiece of 13th century Gothic architecture built on the site of a fourth century Roman temple, he recognized an inscription on the ground. It said, "This could be a place of historical importance." That inscription was an answer to Jones' prayer for heavenly direction and became a declaration upon which he would build an apostolic church that would give the city of Cologne an important role in God's Kingdom.

That was 25 years ago. Today, Jones and his wife Sylvia are senior pastors leading the Christliche Gemeinde Köln church and the duo's vision has broadened beyond the borders of Germany to include all of Europe via the daily television program "Freedom" and other international media outreaches. If anyone has faced - and overcome - adversity, it's Jones.

The Voice magazine caught up with Jones to discuss how to overcome spiritual opposition, how to overcome natural opposition and how the apostolic is ushering in greater victory over adversity.

THE VOICE: What does it take to pioneer a church in a foreign land?

DR. JONES: The nature of the apostolic church is to take back, to build up, to destroy. The nature of the apostolic church is to restore the Kingdom of God. Because of that nature, as a whole, the apostolic church, I believe, is not very welcomed.

I believe to pioneer a church in a foreign country you must be able and have the ability to deal with being rejected without getting bitter, without compromising, without losing the vision and the goal, without forgetting the reason that God has sent you to that place. Because of the nature of the apostolic church you are confronted with very much rejection. So that's the number one thing. You have to be able to deal with the rejection.

THE VOICE: How would you describe the spiritual opposition to Christianity in Germany? What is the spiritual climate like there?

DR. JONES: I would say the opposition to Christianity in Germany is nothing we have ever experienced in the States. Because of the history of Germany I believe it's easy to understand the opposition to Christianity in Germany as very violent. We have received here a lot of persecution, whether it be from the government, the news media, the school system, the city itself. I would say the spiritual climate and opposition to Christianity in Germany is one that manifests itself in a very violent way. We had a man kill his wife, who was a part of our church, because she had converted to Christianity.

THE VOICE: You have pioneered the apostolic in Germany - even before people used words like "apostolic." What has been the biggest opposition to your work there?

DR. JONES: As I already stated, we have had much opposition, whether it be from parents, the school, the government, the news media, but I believe that probably our biggest opposition has come from the Christians within the community. I believe that has been one of our biggest oppositions through over 24 years of ministry here. Within that time we have never been accepted in the city or with our vision or what we do. I believe that has been one of our biggest oppositions.

THE VOICE: How did you overcome that adversity?

DR. JONES: In one sense, as far as the present condition in Germany or in Cologne here, that has not been overcome. That condition remains the same. We have remained in the same position of being rejected. On the other hand, we have overcome, of course, through forgiveness. We have overcome it by keeping our focus on God and the vision, what He has called us to do. Because our church is mainly made up of people that get saved within our church, they grab hold of the vision and become very productive and become very loyal. That is why, without a doubt, we have by far the largest church to have ever been built in this city in its 200-year history.

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THE VOICE: Do you think the apostolic will usher in a time when the church influences government?

DR. JONES: Yes, indeed I think that. In fact, I believe the apostolic and the prophetic are the only things that can do that. The other ministries that we have seen in the Body of Christ, whether it be the pastor, the evangelist or the teacher, they all indeed have a very great and very important function. But I don’t believe they have the capacity, power or anointing to usher this type of governmental influence. The apostolic church demands the type of respect that would be necessary for the government and other sources of power to look to us as the church and look to us as a place that has answers. As long as the church remains this little small place on the corner that is nice and everybody likes, then it will never take back the territory that the devil stole from us; we will never be able to move in the places of business, or the other areas of influence where the government would be even asking us for our advice.

THE VOICE: What about opposition from other churches? What advice would you give to the leader of a church who is in a region where other churches consider it strange, misguided or super spiritual?

DR. JONES: I would say that an apostolic church will not be welcomed into the community. Because of the aggressive nature of the apostolic church, the demanding nature of the church, I don’t think we can expect to be liked or welcomed by everyone. I think the best advice is to keep our hearts as pure and clean as possible and to keep our minds on God and the calling that we have and not any type of false unity, humanism, that compromising calling, and do what God has told us to do and let God take care of the fact of unity or friendliness or pastor breakfasts in the local area.

THE VOICE: What about opposition in the spirit realm? What do you see as the main spiritual opposition to the apostolic and prophetic in this hour?

DR. JONES: I think the main opposition or problem in America is that the apostolic is not practiced as it is taught. I believe in America we take everything that is new as a teaching and it becomes more something that we teach instead of something that we do. The teaching of the apostolic is very important and it’s good that we understand what it does and how it functions, but I think that the greatest opposition is that the devil keeps us in that area of understanding instead of the area practice. And that area of practice is that of commitment, sacrifice, having covenant relationships with other people within our church, staying in the local church, being apart of the local church; almost in the sense a radical commitment to that local body; almost like a marriage; almost like the covenant we see between Ruth and Naomi. We see there a very strong covenant where she even says, “Let nothing separate us from this covenant except death.” And I think that the greatest opposition to the apostolic church is our own nature of rebellion, wanting our own thing and ministry and not being willing to submit and commit and be involved in covenant relationships no matter what they cost us.

THE VOICE: Do you have to fight to be apostolic?

DR. JONES: The apostolic church has a fight. We are fighting to obtain, to take back territory that the devil has stolen. We are indeed fighting to move forward. It just comes out of us, the taking of territory, the moving forward, the buying of land and property, which I consider apostolic. If you’re apostolic you do not rent but you buy and posses.

THE VOICE: We are beginning to hear more about the Kingdom and how God has given us dominion. What does it really mean to take dominion?

DR. JONES: I believe that it means something I just mentioned. I believe that taking of dominion obviously includes prayer and spiritual warfare. It obviously does mean the recognizing of the strongholds that hold every nation in bondage. Every nation has its own type of strongholds. In Germany there is very much fear and control. In America a stronghold is rebellion and selfishness. In the ministry area a stronghold is having your own ministry, not willing to submit, not willing to be apart of the team, not willing to give up your benefit for the common church or the calling. I believe taking dominion practically means starting businesses. I believe that it is very important for the church to accumulate as much property and buildings as possible. I believe that dominion means also in the natural that we own and we posses. We do not rent from someone else, we are not renters of a building from a heathen nation or company but we buy and posses our own buildings. With that we are taking dominion. With that we are having a say over that area, what we do inside that building around that building because we own that building. We have taken dominion. We have taken control.

THE VOICE: How can apostolic churches impact their communities? In your experience, what’s the best way to reach the lost in a neighborhood?

DR. JONES: The reaching of the lost means we must reach out to the poor. We must reach out to the addicted the downtrodden. I believe that the Bible is very clear. That is the heart of God. The Bible says if we would give to the poor that we shall have no lack. We have experienced that. Since we have done that God has multiplied us financially in a way that is unimaginable. God has multiplied the church. We have seen salvations everyday. I believe the reaching of the poor is God’s heart. It is a very important key because we are reaching people that cannot help us. If we were reaching rich people, businessmen, those are all that have the capability of helping us and they get saved that’s good. But they have the ability to give us money. If we reach the poor they do not have the ability to give us anything. But God has promised that if we will give to the poor we shall have no lack. We are finding that God in that realm is our source; that God multiplies and gives in a way that is astronomical. I also believe that in reaching the poor it gives us a chance to humble ourselves. There is no greater way to get the hand of God to move in your favor than to humble yourself. The Bible says that if we humble ourselves under the mighty hand of God, God will exalt us.

THE VOICE: It has been reported that the Church in the USA is not effective in ministry and it doesn’t know why. How can the Church, both leaders and believers, be more effective?

DR. JONES: I believe that for the American Church to be more effective and for this reformation or this apostolic-prophetic move to really affect our nation the church as a whole need a new commitment. The Church, the pastors, and especially the pastor’s leaders, cannot expect the people to do something the Church will not do. And I believe that some pastors and pastor’s leaders are way too lukewarm as a whole, way too lazy. There has to be a new willingness and commitment. We spend way too little time on our knees. We don’t spend enough time in the Word of God. We do not spend enough time in the neighborhoods. We do not spend enough time with the poor evangelizing. We do not spend enough time with the young people and pouring ourselves in the next generation.

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We spend too much time in restaurants and playing hobbies. We have taken on the American Christianity lifestyle, which is not very demanding. Christianity has become a religion and pastors have become people which manage and administrate the churches and they do not challenge and demand from the people. That is one of the very positive aspects of the apostolic. The apostolic demands. It sees what can be done. It sees the potential in the Church, which is the Body of Christ. It sees the potential in the individual members and it challenges them, draws it out of them, it demands them to be involved, to be committed, to go with God, to give us every ounce of their lives, money, talent, and their time.

I believe that if we are going to be effective in America it’s going to take more than just having a good teaching and explanation of what the apostolic is. I believe that there has to be a complete whole new cultural change; that we have to get back to what is really meant in the Bible, what is meant by the Word, Church and Body of Christ, commitment, covenant relationships. I think that covenant relationships are the key; relationships that keep us together, that hold us. Together we have a particular goal that God has given us and we are willing to do whatever it takes; we are willing to pay whatever price it takes in order to see the will of God accomplished.

We must see the Church again as an army. The Church is in a battle. We see that in the natural and the spiritual realm. That revelation is greatly needed in the American Church. In an army we do not take a month off during our church activities as a month’s sabbatical. That is absolutely ridiculous. Whoever thought that you could just take a month off when you’re in a battle. Indeed that is very typical of the American Church; that the lack of revelation that we are indeed right in the middle of a war. It is a war that we will not win unless we take this war seriously and we make the necessary commitments and we make the necessary steps that God has given us to ensure our victory.

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