If you hang out in an apostolic or prophetic church for
long, then you are bound to hear two words: “Come out!”
Jesus was anointed to preach the Good News to the poor, to
heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the
captives – let’s stop right there for a moment. The Gospels
make it evident that deliverance was a vital aspect of
Christ’s ministry. Yet so many churches today sweep the
devils under the rug or send them to pastoral counseling
instead of confronting and expelling them. Apostolic and
prophetic churches, in contrast, offer present day truth
about deliverance ministry with balanced, Biblical teaching
on the authority – and responsibility – that believers have
to cast out devils in Jesus’ name.
THE VOICE sat down with Doris Wagner, executive vice
president of Global Harvest Ministries in Colorado Springs,
Co., to discuss practical applications of deliverance today.
The Lord has used Mrs. Wagner to set hundreds of people free
from various addictions and bondages over the past two
decades. Her desire now is to see the Body of Christ
equipped for the work of deliverance ministry and to that
end she conducts deliverance ministry seminars across the
United States.
THE VOICE:
Why do apostolic and prophetic churches put so much
emphasis on deliverance ministry?
MRS. DORIS WAGNER: Because they are about the only ones
that believe in it. With a cessation of education that many
people receive in major Bible schools or seminaries,
deliverance is simply not a part of the curriculum. It’s not
part of the world view and they’ve simply not dealt with it.
They’ve not felt the need to. There are some very elegant
counseling and support groups set up that string processes
out, but many problems are demonic in nature and they could
be taken care of far more quickly and efficiently through
deliverance. There’s a field of people who really have seen
the efficacy of deliverance ministry.
THE VOICE:
Do demons automatically leave when a person is born
again?
MRS.
DORIS WAGNER: Yes and no. It is very difficult to
explain the verse “old things are passed away and all things
have become new” in the mind of an individual. However, if a
person has invited a problem in, then it’s very easy for
that problem to leave and often times does at conversion.
When an individual has been cursed from an outside source,
then that can have demonic implications with it. Perhaps it
happened after conversion. Let’s say a person was addicted
to gambling and that spirit of addiction left at conversion,
but then at a weak moment they began gambling again. That
person would need deliverance because they invited the demon
back in. In the Scriptures we also find out that there are
generational problems. Things such as lust are very commonly
passed down to your children. It just seems like these
things linger after a person’s conversion. Sometimes they go
and sometimes they don’t. So, the answer is yes and no. I
find often, as I deal a lot with Asian people, that they
have been dedicated to gods and goddesses. Very much like a
Christian dedication where we bring our babies and dedicate
them to the Lord and enter into covenant with God, when
these Asian babies are dedicated to a god or goddess there
can be a demonic covenant formed that afflicts the
individual even though they did not have power over that
decision themselves. They inherited an open door to that
demonic activity.
THE VOICE:
So, Christians can have a demon, but can a Christian
actually be demon possessed?
MRS. DORIS WAGNER: I don’t like that word “possessed.”
It’s an unfortunate translation. The more accurate
translation means afflicted, in bondage to, but something
that is not total possession. I think total possession is
quite a rarity. To be totally possessed means that one does
not have the ability to use his or her own mind and we just
don’t see a lot of that. But, it certainly happens on
occasion.
THE VOICE:
You mentioned a few things that open up a person for
demonic oppression. What else opens the door for demons?
MRS. DORIS WAGNER: I like to call them entry points. A
demon must have a right to gain entry into a person’s life.
For example, inheritance is one. Rejection is another. A
person can suffer rejection because of things such as being
an unwanted child. If that is spoken over them before they
were born, then that individual may feel like they don’t
fit, like something is wrong. They have inherited a spirit
of rejection. It’s almost like a word curse. If adopted
children are not prayed over when they are real tiny by
their adoptive parents, then they often become frequently
rebellious and very, very difficult children, which doesn’t
make a whole lot of since in the natural because they are
receiving affection and a certain stability. But underlying
is the question, “Why did my original birth parents not want
me?” So they feel severely rejected. A person can experience
many different types of problems through inheritance.
Another open door often is victimization. Sexual
victimization happens in many settings, including schools
and homes. When a child is victimized, a terrible, terrible
trauma occurs. They can then pick up things such as severe
rejection and lust. I have prayed for prostitutes, for
example, who were abused as children. Their abusers were
usually abused as children and it gets passed on. These
people also experience severe depression and become
suicidal. Many of them can’t have a happy marriage. These
kinds of victimizations are open doors, although they are
not the fault of the individuals. Anger or interpersonal
relations that leave trauma or unforgiveness are an open
door to hatred and bitterness and sometimes it’s not the
individual’s fault because they have been victimized.
THE VOICE:
That’s a good point about demonic oppression not
always being a person’s fault. People who are going through
deliverance need to know that.
MRS. DORIS WAGNER: The devil doesn’t play fair.
THE VOICE:
What are some other entry points for demons?
MRS. DORIS WAGNER: Willful disobedience, like sin.
Involvement in the occult or involvement with Satanism or
witchcraft invites demons into people’s lives. Satan
followers actually cut deals with the devil. They make a
pact and literally sell their souls to the devil. That’s
willful disobedience. The homosexual agenda is suggesting to
individuals that it is OK to experiment. What they do is
invite a spirit of lust to come on them and a spirit of
homosexuality. So it’s a very serious issue. Lust is such a
big problem that can lead to pornography, compulsive
masturbation, and a ton of other bits and baggage that come
along with the spirits of lust. Sex sells, let’s face it,
and many people fall prey to it. Now with the Internet and
with pornography being so readily available lust has just
become a major, major problem.
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THE VOICE:
Is the spirit of lust one of the most common demons
you run into in your deliverance sessions?
MRS. DORIS WAGNER: Absolutely. But if a person wants to
get rid of it, then it is easy to get free from lust.
THE VOICE:
Besides lust, what other spirits do you encounter
over and over again?
MRS. DORIS WAGNER: Rejection is very common – and
perceived rejection. Some people view the whole world
through the grid of rejection. They have a fear of rejection
and they misinterpret things because there is a demon there
that has put a pair of glasses on their eyes. I pray a lot
against self-rejection, fear of rejection, and hereditary
rejection. Rejected people reject others. Other common
emotional problems can be inherited, such as anxiety and
depression. Sometimes that tends to run in families and
those spirits can be cut off. You always have to go into the
history of the individual and see what they know about their
ancestors before praying deliverance. Unforgiveness can
cause major problems in a person’s life. It may have been an
injustice that causes anger or resentment and they feel like
they have a right not to forgive. In many other religions
you don’t have to forgive if the perpetrator is not
repentant, but Christianity is not like that. We are to
forgive anybody who despitefully uses us, even if they don’t
ask for forgiveness. Forgiveness severs a bondage that can
be caused by a demon of unforgiveness. These demons will
just park there and make everybody miserable. Jesus commands
us to forgive. He tells us not to let the sun go down on our
wrath. If you don’t forgive, then it can grow into
resentment or bitterness or even hatred. A demon can use
that opening of unforgiveness to set up housekeeping and to
keep a person in an attitude of unforgiveness. Forgiving
allows the other people to act differently because they are
no longer beholden to you because of your unforgiveness
towards them. When we pray deliverance we don’t just kick
demons out, but we have people work through areas such as
unforgiveness to leave them feeling like they are free from
the bondage of unforgiveness, which is the root of so many
demonic and emotional issues.
THE VOICE:
How can you determine if a person’s behavior is
caused by demons or if it’s just a manifestation of the
flesh?
MRS. DORIS WAGNER: First of all, I ask questions. When
did it begin? Did an issue or certain event bring up the
problem that you are struggling with? Did your parents
struggle with these problems? The biggest issue is who is in
control. If pornography rules your life and you seemingly
have no control over it, then that’s a very, very sneaky
clue that there is demonic activity going on. After lust is
cast out of a person, then I ask them to write me a letter
to let me know how they are doing. Frequently they’ll say,
“There used to be this inner raging, uncontrollable desire
and turmoil, now temptation comes from the outside and I can
say no.” Sometimes people say, “Something came over me.”
When they feel something came over them, then that’s often a
clue of demonic activity, particularly when it’s anger or
rage.
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THE VOICE:
How
should a deliverance minister prepare to pray deliverance?
MRS. DORIS WAGNER: I have a very complete questionnaire
that I ask people to fill out. It asks things about
background. Were you an adopted child? Have you had trouble
with bitterness, anger, unforgiveness? Then it goes into
various categories such as witchcraft, lust, addiction
issues, and so forth. I’ve been at it a long time and Satan
doesn’t invent anything new. When you can see that there’s
been a severe trauma in one area, then you can piece things
together.
THE VOICE:
How should a deliverance candidate prepare to be
delivered?
MRS.
DORIS WAGNER: I tell them to be honest with me. I
ask them to pray before they fill out the questionnaire and
ask the Holy Spirit to help them remember things. The devil
wants to hide issues. I will not betray a confidence. As a
matter of fact, after I pray for a person, I shred the
questionnaire. Generally, deliverance ministers always smile
and agree with me when I say that a week later I had
forgotten what I prayed about for that person. I also ask
the deliverance candidate to fast and pray.
THE VOICE:
Do you recommend that people pray deliverance in
teams?
MRS. DORIS WAGNER: When I started out I always had an
intercessor with me and often those people were gifted with
words of knowledge or discerning of spirits. When you’re
first starting out, teams are very good. Pray in teams of
two and do not pray for couples together because something
might begin manifesting in one and work off the other one.
People praying for people of the same gender is very good,
because a woman will open up concerning victimization or
sexual difficulties in front of a woman. A guy will feel
much more comfortable with a guy.
THE VOICE:
Can a person cast demons out of himself? Is this
wise?
MRS. DORIS WAGNER: Often people cannot get help because
they simply don’t know anyone who ministers deliverance.
They’ve got a problem and perhaps the people in their church
don’t even believe in demons. Unfortunately, this is often
the case. In many instances a person can set themselves free
from problems they’ve invited in their life, like certain
addictions, certain lust issues, certain rejection issues.
THE VOICE:
How does one keep his or her deliverance?
MRS. DORIS WAGNER: It’s not that difficult to do.
Temptation comes from the outside and it’s a question of
saying “no” a few times and then the demons that have been
expelled will get tired and go and look for somebody else.
THE VOICE:
What about issues like rejection, where it’s more of
a feeling than a temptation? If you don’t fall for the
demon’s lies will it get tired and give up?
MRS. DORIS WAGNER: This is what my experience has been.
The first weeks after deliverance are very important. People
need to study their Bible and pray and stay close to God. If
people can weather those first couple of weeks they are
generally home free. Stay in church, worship with others,
and forsake friends that have dragged you down into problems
in the first place.
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